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I’LL DO IT LATER
Interview: Bridging Worlds benefitting UNHCR

Christie’s is thrilled to present Bridging Worlds: Digital Art Beyond Borders, an auction to benefit UNHCR, the United Nations High Commissioner For Refugees. Inspired by the 60th Biennale's theme, "Stranieri Ovunque" - "Foreigners Everywhere," Bridging Worlds aims to explore the transformative power of digital art in connecting worlds, transcending borders, and fostering a sense of unity across diverse artistic practices.

Curated by Micol Ap, the auction features 11 artworks generously donated by notable digital artists including Niceaunties, Erick Calderon (Snowfro), IX Shells, Mario Klingemann, Sasha Stiles, Andreas Gysin, 0xDeafbeef, Vinnie Hager, Emi Kusano and Iskra Velitchkova. We sat down with curator Micol Ap and the participating artists to talk about the auction theme and the works they contributed.

In your work, how do you interpret the concept of being a "foreigner" or an "outsider"? Does this theme resonate with your personal or artistic experience?

IX Shells: I often feel like a foreigner in my own practice. The digital medium is still evolving, and working with algorithms sometimes feels like speaking a language that not everyone understands, including myself at times. This foreignness keeps me curious and pushes me to explore deeper. It’s what drives the generative, pixel-based nature of my work—this constant evolution and sense of never fully belonging. It makes me explore new ways of encoding identity, migration, and displacement into every pixel and line of code.

Mario Klingemann: The way I see art as a space is that almost anyone who tries to get "in" starts as an outsider, which in my eyes is also the most important part of it: that what is "inside" and "outside" is constantly being redefined and renegotiated and that the boundaries of the artworld are always expanding - in particular by those who might not match the template that the current gatekeepers are trying to apply. Personally, as someone who did not get into art via the traditional art school route and who had to learn the language and customs on his own, I find the theme very relatable.

Vinnie Hager: In my work, the concept of being an "outsider" is closely tied to the idea of escapism. For me, the act of creating, especially drawing, is a deeply solitary experience—a space where I step outside of the external world and into my own. There’s something inherently isolating about this process, but it’s within that isolation that I find freedom and focus. Drawing becomes a form of retreat, a way to disconnect from external entities and create a space where I can explore at will. This feeling of being an outsider isn’t just personal—it extends into my artistic practice as well. The repetition of geometric forms and bold lines in my work reflects the meditative, almost hypnotic nature of drawing, where I become an observer of my own world. I’m often on the edge of various realities—physical, digital, and conceptual—and it’s this overlapping space that allows me to continuously question and reinterpret what it means to belong. In that sense, being an outsider isn’t a barrier, but rather a gateway into new possibilities, and creating my art is how I navigate that space. 

Iskra Velitchkova: Being a foreigner, I think, is a much broader term than we sometimes reduce it to—it’s not just  about nationality. It’s a reality with many layers, and above all, it’s a state of being, a feeling. I’m one myself. My family has been immigrants. Maybe because I grew up in an environment  where a personal sense of freedom and the belief that anything is possible were central, I was  maybe protected to see the world from that perspective, and I never felt socially discriminated  against. But no matter the specifics, the feeling is always there, inside, along with the struggles. It grows  with you because at home, you talk about it. "We’re different. You’ll have to work harder than  everyone else because we don’t have the safety net they do. You’re not from here. You’re not from  there. Study, work, fight. Don’t complain. You have to play the game”...Being a foreigner means never truly arriving anywhere. And that,  without a doubt, is always present in my work. 

0xDeafbeef: I've had a wandering path, bouncing around between numerous fields including sound recording, music, computer animation, electronics, blacksmithing. Social anxiety is a challenge of mine, and I've never felt that I fit in with any particular group. I've tended towards activities that are solitary, and identify strongly with the introverted creative practices of people like Tarn Adams, Bruce Bickford, John and James Whitney. What originally motivated the 0xDEAFBEEF project was a feeling of alienation by the rapid pace of change of modern tech, and an attempt to regain agency over my personal relationship with technology.

Sasha Stiles: I have a vivid memory of workshopping a poem many years ago with a mentor, who questioned my use of that exact word: “foreigner.” The poem had to do with discovering how the internet allowed me to feel at home everywhere, anywhere, despite often feeling like a foreigner in my own body. The word has complex associations; to me, it conjures many personal aspects of alienation and displacement, from my Kalmyk ancestry and my family’s arrival in the U.S. as refugees, to my role as a woman who has never wanted to follow the conventions of womanhood, and now as a poet in tech, in blockchain, in AI. I have never really been someone who fits in comfortably; I feel much more myself when I’m on the outside, slightly out of place, observing, thinking, reflecting.

OONA, Touched (Detail)

Can you explain how your piece reflects the theme of the auction?

Niceaunties: Niceburg was inspired by the sense of coldness and ‘ice-olation’ one can experience, even in a familiar environment. It explores the feeling of having no true place of belonging, even on home ground. As one acclimatized to a new setting—often beyond their own choosing—the melting ice symbolizes the gradual loosening of boundaries. Set against a backdrop of global warming and melting ice caps, this AI narrative sees memories and creatures emerge from the thaw, crowding the landscape, much like the process of self-discovery and transformation.

Emi Kusano: A: My piece for this auction reflects my personal experiences and aligns deeply with the concept of being a "foreigner." During my exchange in the United States, I constantly felt like an outsider — I was a non-Christian, non-white individual in that environment. This experience was especially impactful because it happened during my teenage years, a time when identity is easily shaken. It remains a significant memory that has shaped who I am today, and through this artwork, I am revisiting those emotions using AI. In this piece, I explore the themes of belonging, cultural adaptation, and the invisible pressures of societal expectations while striving to maintain my identity. As an exchange student, I found myself unconsciously adapting behaviors considered "Japanese" from the Western perspective. In creating this particular work, I wanted to confront these stereotypes and depict how "outsiders" adapt to foreign environments. Through my personal experiences, this artwork reflects the struggle for self-expression and adaptation while facing the cultural expectations and perspectives of others.

Sasha Stiles: My mother was born in a displaced persons camp in postwar Europe. She and her family were “resettled” in the U.S. by a humanitarian organization. I was the first born in this country. Growing up between worlds in terms of language and memory, the complexities of migration and belonging are in my blood. I have chosen to contribute my poem “SEVEN GENERATIONS” to this exhibition because it is about my mother and her mother and her mother’s mother, my maternal lineage, my refugee blood, the nomadic spirit I’ve inherited. It honors how the connections and disconnections inherent in a displaced family’s existence can still somehow allow a child like me to find her place in the world. 

Vinnie Hager: My piece "Handle With Care" reflects the auctions theme by focusing on the connections we create across divides. I drew two planetary forms in the upper corners that illustrate the idea of “worlds apart”—whether it’s between nations, cultures, or personal identities. Connecting these forms are bridges that represent the potential for connection in a world increasingly fractured by boundaries, differences, and spaces.

The field of stars beneath these bridges speaks to the limitless possibilities that emerge when those divides are crossed. It’s a reminder that beyond these divides—whether physical or ideological—there lies a vast, shared potential for growth and understanding. 

Mario Klingemann: My piece YOU ARE (T)HERE is approaching the theme in a quite straightforward and minimal way: it is based on the "you are here" signature you often find on public maps and with which everyone who ever got lost in a different country is probably quite familiar. By adding the letter "T" which changes "HERE" to "THERE" I temporarily change the meaning of this phrase. I wanted to create an ambiguity where it is not clear who is meant with "you" and if the downward is pointing to the place the observer is currently standing at or if it is pointing at the other side of the world. 

IX Shells: The theme of displacement was central to the way I constructed my piece. I explored how identity, much like pixelated patterns, can be broken down and reshaped through the experience of migration. Using algorithms, I generated patterns that mirrored the fractured yet interconnected nature of the diaspora. 

Iskra Velitchkova: For this project, I decided to bring the piece back and offer it up for auction, donating 100% of the  proceeds to a cause I believe is deeply important. Being a foreigner is more than a condition—it’s a feeling, a constant sense of being outside both  your country and yourself. It’s the awareness that the present feels distant, always overshadowed  by the future. What’s left to be done, what’s left to endure, the path ahead, the life waiting to  unfold.  Apt 47B offers a indiscrete look into a single window in a single building. Boxes on boxes, floors  on floors, where people become numbers. Some lives are meant to bridge the gap, sacrificing the  present for the future, and for those who will come after. Life is for the future; now is a time to endure the practical, the functional. Now better be numbers,  they say.  

Mario Klingemann, YOU ARE (T)HERE (Still)

How do you think your cultural or geographical background influences your perspective as an artist? Does this create a sense of being a "foreigner" in the digital art world?

Mario Klingemann:  Whilst for the longest time in my journey to become accepted as an artist into the art world I did feel like an outsider I cannot say that I ever felt being a "foreigner" in the digital art world per se. That is because when I began, what we now commonly take for granted as "digital art" did not really exist - at least not in my or the public perception - it was in the process of forming and definitely lacked the general acceptance as a valid medium for art. But yes, in particular before globalization and before the internet turned into this all-encompassing platform one's geographical background was definitely a deciding factor for your chances to have your work recognized or exhibited. And whilst living and working in Munich, Germany was surely an easier springboard for me than for someone who might have tried the same from the global south at that time the game was still much in favor for those who were located for example in one of the metropoles of the USA. And whilst nowadays geography still plays a role in the convenience of making personal connections to curators and collectors at least in our days its importance has fortunately diminished and the chances for anyone, no matter where they are in the world, to have their work recognized and get visibility have much improved thanks to the internet and the fact that digital art does not necessarily require expensive ressources.

IX Shells: My geographical background is integral to my work. Growing up in Panama, surrounded by diverse traditions, has always been a source of inspiration, especially when I explore geometric patterns and vibrant colors. But in the digital art world, I sometimes feel like a foreigner—there’s this tension between the globalized, algorithmic language I use and the deeply personal stories I want to tell. That sense of foreignness fuels my creativity because it pushes me to reconcile these two worlds within my work.

0xDeafbeef: I live outside major art centers, and life circumstances make it difficult to travel. I've flown twice in the last 10 years. Not too long ago that would have prevented any type of serious engagement in an art world. During COVID and the surge of interest in NFTs, everyone was at home online, no one could travel. There was temporarily a kind of levelling of playing field, and it was under those unique conditions that my work, and many other artists from non traditional backgrounds, received attention.Although it was a brief period, I think those unique circumstances allowed for interesting non conventional work to flourish.I didn't have a traditional art background, nor did I know much about art institutions or market. I will remember that time fondly as "beginners mind", unencumbered by expectations or assumptions. Of course, that cannot last. Since then I've greatly enjoyed learning about art history and philosophy to broaden and contextualize my practice. I've somewhat less enjoyed learning about the "art world" and art market, of which I previously had a naive view. 

Andreas Gysin:The comfort of life in my country is real and the level of wealth is almost obscene. I feel like a privileged foreigner in the world–almost!

Life is, of course, not care-free but the convenience, well being, and material comforts allow me to dedicate much time to my craft.

Culturally, I’m very influenced by modernist masters from art and design, especially by the "Concrete Art" movement. The design, history and culture in my country have also deeply impacted my practice and the way I think about projects.

Niceaunties, Niceberg (Still)

How do you think digital art can help create a more inclusive conversation about identity, migration, and displacement in contemporary society?

Niceaunties: Digital art, as a medium of the internet age, has an unmatched potential to connect with audiences globally, making it uniquely positioned to spark conversations on complex issues like identity, migration, and displacement. The range of digital formats—such as films, animated narratives, and interactive experiences—enables artists to convey complex emotions and nuanced stories through sound, visuals, and motion, allowing for deeper engagement with the subject matter. Digital platforms also offer space for those often labeled as 'foreign' or 'outsiders' to present their own stories in their own voices, breaking down stereotypes and encouraging a more inclusive discourse around what it means to belong in today’s fluid social landscape.

Andreas Gysin: I believe that it’s very difficult to encode and convey a complex message or social issue into a single artwork; even famous, politically engaged artists only often manage to deliver only a vague message through their art; this is in my opinion a limitation of the medium itself, not of the communication skills of the artists (an exception could be photography, though I don’t want to fuel the eternal discussion of its objectivity). Artworks can only ignite a spark, the deeper discussion needs to happen elsewhere. But this spark, especially when it’s provocative, can be very powerful and potentially have a large, even global, reach!

Sasha Stiles: Art allows us to step outside our own limited perspectives and into other lives and narratives. It’s an incredibly powerful way of tapping into other points of view, other journeys, other experiences. And it’s a way of preserving heritage and identity even far from home, as the Kalmyk community here in the U.S. has done through storytelling, dance lessons, food rituals, community traditions.

Emi Kusano: I believe that digital art, and AI in particular, has the potential to foster discussions about identity, migration, and displacement by visually recreating untold stories and experiences. Through platforms like blockchain and NFTs, digital art can reach an international audience, engaging people in dialogues that might not have been possible through traditional art forms. Buying an artwork on the blockchain can, in a sense, become a statement of support for an artist's movement, leaving a historical record. For example, my work may resonate with many people who have had similar experiences, and digital art provides a platform to enhance these discussions. I believe that by sharing our individual experiences, we can build a more inclusive understanding.

Vinnie Hager, Handle With Care (Detail)

Cover Image: IX SHELLS, Rompeolas -- Resurgiendo a través de la Resistencia (Sea Wall — Resurgence Through Resistance) (Still)

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Some key facts about NFTs and how to buy them through Christie’s 3.0
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